Home Valuation Code of Conduct (Revised Version)

A revised version of the Home Valuation Code of Conduct, an agreement between New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, has been released. The Agreement will be effective May 1, 2009.

Here is a link to the revised Home Valuation Code of Conduct:

And here is Cuomo’s statement on the Agreement:

“This revised agreement with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is a step forward: it preserves the core goals of ensuring appraiser independence and eliminating systemic conflicts of interest. It also incorporates common-sense suggestions of industry participants that increase flexibility and efficiency. Under this agreement, Fannie and Freddie commit to purchasing only those loans that are supported by appraisals conducted independently and honestly. Erecting and enforcing meaningful firewalls between appraisers and lenders, and forcing Fannie and Freddie to stop working with unscrupulous lenders and brokers, are key steps in cleaning up the mortgage industry and avoiding another crisis like this in the future. My office looks forward to working with the new Administration in making more reforms to the system in the New Year.”

We will be reading through this revised Agreement and providing our thoughts. However, we are always curious what appraisers think.

  1. Tim

    Well as an 20 year seasoned appraiser it appears that the HVCC has greatly increased and provided a firm foothold for the most recent enterprise in appraisal ordering and assignment, the Appraisal Managment Corporations. No longer will the most seasoned and experienced, as well as geographical local appraiser, be elgible for appraisal assignments. The Appraisal Managament Corporations make assignments based on the cheapest and fastest. Clearing the way for entry level appraisers covering many counties, sometimes 10-15, without local MLS board membership or geographic competence required, to service real estate agents clients in the sales of their listings. Of course even though appraisal fees will be cut in half to the individual appraiser the borrower will not see any savings at all. Most likely the HUD 1 closing statements will reflect a more than typical fee. The difference of course will be profit to the Appraisal Managment Company. These AMC’s will continue to compete against each other in terms of speed and price leaving the homeownner, borrower and agents at the mercy of poor quality appraisal work. Many agents I have spoke with refuse to even make the appointment with “out of area” AMC appraisers citing due diligence to the seller in a transaction. They are probably correct. As far as appraiser independence goes these is so far away from the intent it is unbelieveable. In the past an appraiser could turn down any assignment or just say no to any undue influence, now AMC’s will exert the most pressure on appraisers, 100’s at a time, and refusal to cooperate will lead to removal from their “blind rotating” list. (which is neither blind nor rotating, again is based on cheapest and fastest)I wonder how long it will be before we have Agent Managment Corporations, approved by banking industry and based on lowest commissions and total average days to contract performance ? It is also hard to believe that this HVCC stemmed from an investigation and subsequent findings that WAMU and a large Appraisal Managment Company conspired to commit fraud. So…. the answer is to mandate that this same business model become the industry standard ? A sad day for the real estate industry, appraisers, agents, homehowners, borrowers and the public at large.
    At some point I guess it will be time to make the appraisal profession extinct and use tax assessed values or even worse… the banks own Automated Valuation Models. As a Realtor I would probably just get that up front. No since in spending time with a CMA or a lot of marketing. negotiating skills are not needed. It is what ever the bank says it is. So what will they need Realtors for ? Just to place a sign in the yard and fill out a contract. I don’t think that will pay very much.
    Sad ….. Very Sad.

  2. All would appear to okay, except there has been no mention of the appraisal management companies part in all of this mess. They DO provide appraisal services yet are not licensed, WHY?
    As long as the CHEAPEST appraiser gets selected for the assignment(the way the amc’s work) quality goes out the window. After all, isn’t that what this is all about…quality appraisals.
    Get rid of the amc’s and those appraisers that do not do the correct thing and this industry will turn around real fast.

  3. David

    Want to know what appraisers think? Go to appraisersforum and you’ll get an idea. Nearly all seem to be angered and many imply that they will quit the business. We intend to first quit and then lead a class action lawsuit.

  4. Mike Akers

    The independent honest appraiser will be forced out of busines by reduced fees controlled by AMC’s that makes it impossible to keep the office open. If state appraiser boards did their jog with current regulations, this wouldn’t be necessary. 22 years of hard honest work out the window. Thanks to the politicians.

  5. Get ready for there to be a shortage of appraiser’s to complete appraisal requests. I believe the AMC’s will be the only ones benefiting from this and will force appraisers across the country to leave the industry because of the lower fees offered by the AMC’s.

  6. John

    1, How is it that AG of the state of New York has the authority to make a code that applies to all appraisers in every state?
    2. This code does not change any rules or acceptable code that is not already in place.
    3. The code seems to drive the choice of appraiser into the heretofore non-existent AMC business. The AMC’s of course will skim off some of the appraiser’s fee and anyone who does not agree with that will be stricken from their LIST.
    c. Truly independent and honest fessional appraisers who comply with USPAP and state laws should not have to be on any type of Apprved List to do an appraisal for a lender. In the past this has been discriminitory and exclusionary.
    d. Who will establish and run the Independent Valuation Protection Institute? We already have state agencies and the Appraisal Institute that seem to do a good job.
    e. What will be the result of Appraisal Quality Control. As in the past I think it will lead to “no think” canned appraisal phrazes and clauses that will pass QC.
    f. Appraiser misconduct action will be conducted by state licensing agencies. What is new?

  7. John

    checking the blog

  8. David

    I have been an appraiser for 22 years. I welcome the HVCC as long as we can get paid market rate. Currently $350 per appraisal is stanard. Under HVCC Appraidal Management Companies will order appraisals Some AMCs pay appraiser fees as low as $198 to $210 per appraisal. AMCs are billing lenders $400 to $450 per appraisal for their service and keep one half of the fee. I dont think what AMCs do is worth half the fee

  9. Ana Marie Lizarraga

    This is going to affect the income of independent appraisers as myself and my husband who are independent and work together,. Who will be giving us appraisal orders? Will we have to go through a Appraisal Contractor who is the only authorized Company to do business with the Lender, and if we sign up with the Contractor we get 50% commission when we do all the work have to pay for monthly and yearly fees, pay to MLS’s, license fees and other data companies, and to tech support to the appraisal program.. We have a large office, how are we going to support ourselves. How do we start an Appraisal Contracting firm, never read anything regarding that line of business for the appraiser, or an opportunity, are we the last to hear. There are alot of independent good Brokers who work wirth good appraisers, You know and I know it was inside help that brought us into this mess, not the little independant business, why do we have to suffer. What is the alternative? Is there a plan for us appraisers who are independant?

  10. Ana Marie Lizarraga

    This is going to affect the income of independent appraisers as myself and my husband who are independent and work together,. Who will be giving us appraisal orders? Will we have to go through a Appraisal Contractor who is the only authorized Company to do business with the Lender, and if we sign up with the Contractor we get 50% commission when we do all the work have to pay for monthly and yearly fees, pay to MLS’s, license fees and other data companies, and to tech support to the appraisal program.. We have a large office, how are we going to support ourselves. How do we start an Appraisal Contracting firm, never read anything regarding that line of business for the appraiser, or an opportunity, are we the last to hear. There are alot of independent good Brokers who work wirth good appraisers, You know and I know it was inside help that brought us into this mess, not the little independant business, why do we have to suffer. What is the alternative? Is there a plan for us appraisers who are independant?

  11. chris napolitano

    What Mr. Cuomo has effectively done is cut the fees in half for those profesional appraiser’s that stay in the profession. The use of “Appraisal Management Companies” as a “firewall” are costing the realtor’s customer, the buyer, higher fees, as the AMC’s act as a “middleman” and only pay the appraiser around $175 to perform a full residential valuation and keep the rest. The majority of professional appraiser’s will simply not work for these extremely low fees as our overhead for insurance,softftware,licensing,education, MLS fees are expensive. Only those less qualified appraiser’s will work for lower fees. The role of the underwriter, in their review of the appraisal is sufficient to “firewall” appraiser independence, if they follow Fannie/Freddie guidelines when reading the report This bill, when implemented, will cause many, good, professionals to seek employment in a new career/field where their expertise and time is properly compnsated.

  12. John Schropp

    The problem in New York state was caused by AMCs, one of which Andrew Cuomo may have been involved with. It therfore, seems counter intuitive to develop a system where all or almost all appraisals will be ordered through an AMC.
    All of the good appraisers who have spent a great deal of time and effort to develop a working releationship with ethical lenders and mortgage brokers are and will be forced to accept a very reduced fee for the same or more amount of work.
    In all of this HVCC the problem of dealing with un-ethical mortgage loan officers (sales people) is not addressed. That seems very strange as it is from the un-ethical loan officers that the majority of the undue pressures came from.
    Real Estate Appraisers must meet educational, training and licensing requirements, while in most states there is no licensing, training or ecucational requirements what-so-ever for loan officers. Thus no recourse to the loan officers.
    Many of the AMCs that this HVCC have caused to come into being charge the appraiser as much 50% or more of the normal appraisal fee just to get work assignet to them. So now a profession where the typical appraiser earns about $40,000 or less a year are being told in no uncertin terms that they will be expected to work for half of that. The only folks that will benifit from this HVCC are AMCs. They are set up to be the folks who run the appraisal industry and will control the whole mortgage lending cycle.
    No good will come of this whole process.

  13. Lee

    I knew an appraiser that would value property at whatever was desired by the person that ordered it. His excuse was that it is “an opinion of value”. When the opinion is based on desire not fact the appraiser should loose their license and in some cases serve a minimum jail time of 1+ yrs. Disreputable people do not read or care about the rules. That is similar to the expression ‘locks only keep the honest people out.’

  14. Sam Bonner

    As long as the lenders own appraisal companies, no amount of “firewall” will insulate the appraiser from pressure. We will all know who writes the paycheck and who can pull the plug on any appraiser.

  15. Jim Welch

    You can’t legislate integrity (for example the Madoff Ponzi scheme). This will only continue to erode the Appraisal Profession and Home Ownership. Use Professional associations to protect Hoeownership.

  16. David F Wheatley

    The new “Revised” HVCC still does not address the main problems. All it will do is cause other problems as it still allows for AVM’s to have a say in the lending process. Nothing should take the place of an appraiser inspection of a subject property. Most appraisers are honest and were just “following the market” in the recent runup of values. Remember, we use “closed sales” as comparables. The real problem was with investors and with the relaxed lending standards, especially to investors.
    You will find that the appraisers that will work for AMC”s will be younger and inexperienced. They will be hungry, and will take on many jobs from many AMC’s. AMC’s put a very short time linit on both the appraiser accepting the appraisal assignment and in the expected turnaround time. This will result in well below sub-par appraisals because of inexperience, not having the time that is actually needed to complete an appraisal properly and the lower fees that will be paid to the appraiser. The appraiser will not be able to afford the time it takes to do an appraisal properly and still make a decent living. Just because an appraisal is done through an AMC does not mean it will be a good appraisal. You are going about this the wrong way and a lot of good appraisers will not have work as the AMC’s will be sending work the one’s who get the work done quickly. All that needs to be done is have quality control done properly, by the lender and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That plus making someone actually qualify for a mortgage and have a down payment will solve this problem. I have been appraising since 1985 and have seen appraisers get blame for many things that are not actually not the fault of the appraiser. In time you will find that good appraisers do good work and bad appraisers will do bad work, whether is is for an AMC or not. Mandating the use of AMC’s will cause many appraisers to make less while the AMC’c will make huge profits at the expense of the good appraisers.

  17. Jerry Rocha.


  18. All that I have read here from appraisers is true…the demise of ethical, experienced appraisers. Great for the Skippy Appraiser! The current HVCC does nothing to protect appraisers; moreover, it will allow lenders & AMCs to further destroy the profession and “capture” appraisers. Since it has been proven time & again this crisis was NOT the fault of the appraiser more than the fallout from the allowances that “every one in America should own a Home” and the shortly- there-after affect of laxed borrowering restrictions & more Creative Financing! I have been an ethical and deligent appraiser for 23 years. In the past many months, my income has been cut to a level that I can not continue my profession, pay mandatory fees, E&O, cont ed, and operating expenses, etc due to the robbery of the Lender and the AMC splitting what should be my full fee. My experience is AMCs demand that I reduce my fee and promise a 24 hour turn-time. If I don’t except both conditions I am not given the assignment and also am taken off the active approved list. An ethical, diligent, compliant report could take longer than a mandatory 24 hours turn-time and surely is more worthy of a less than half fee. If any one up there cares: a recent example of my experience with an AMC: Ordered several appraisals in a close time period, the AMC sent the reports to their client, the bank. We must always wait weeks but as soon as I mentioned payment for services rendered, they disappeared after sending a not-sufficient funds check. …Out thousands of half-service fee earned dollars. The AMC’s “client”, the Bank indicated they were “not my client” (to be clear the bank says they are not my client) and did not have to pay as they had paid the now missing “AMC”. So, Who is who’s client? It was never MY choice to have to use the AMC, it was the banks and therefore the banks “client”. The bank indicated I would need to take my issues up with the AMC not the Bank. The AMC was MIA. There are no rules for Banks or AMCs, no ethical guidelines, no licenses…not that I or “THEY” are aware of. TO PROTECT & SERVE the PUBLIC?…really??? Example: AMCs do not allow me to respond to the homeowners questions regarding the fee for appraisal services. …the difference in the fee they paid for the appraisal service and what the appraiser actually received as payment. Typically far less than half of what the borrower assumes the appraiser received. The bank and the AMC split the greater majority of the fee! What about the borrower.. Isn’t the ultimate important reason for appraisal laws, rules, and guidelines to Protect the PUBLIC? As a borrower I would assume “scam” if I knew I had paid an appraisal fee and it did not pay for the “appraisal”. As the borrower, I would be looking for my money back and someone to “Pay” for the scam. Should we just work for free? Can we get on some type of government program so we can do OUR Protect & Serve J-O-B? There are times the AMC demands that the appraiser collect the service fee from the homeowner …not to keep but to send to the AMC. We must deposit the check in our business account and send the AMC our company check with hopes of possibly receiving our crumbs cut months later. In the AMCs Appraisal Approval process it is required we supply confidential SS information, what guidelines do they have to keep that information confidential? There are AMCs set-ups that certianly take half of the borrowers appraisal fee but also make the appraiser pay a service fee to send the report through their service site. Is there anyone out there that cares. Can’t you see this is out-of-control? From the date in history, when Laws and Guidelines came into affect, what did you want us to do or be other than to “Protect and Serve” the public from less than ethical lenders. Well we can’t do that job anymore, we won’t be around. To my demise..WOW HOW BROKEN!!

  19. Patrick

    I read the HVCC and it doesn’t appear to advocate appraisal management companies. Several times it talks about the “lender OR third party affiliated with lender” so I don’t see where management companies are endorsed by this rule. However, I do think that management companies definately do not earn the 50% of the fee that they collect. Also I don’t care for the Individual Valuation Protection Institute and the quality control testing of 10% “or other significant percentage” of appraisals, whatever that means.
    Sometimes government rules or laws say one thing and end up causing another, and it may be that this rule causes appraisal management companies to be used exclusively, which, as it seems most of us agree, is a bad thing. However, isn’t this a done deal? What can appraisers do to protect our incomes from shrinking and provide for reliability of our work product?

  20. Robert P Panicali

    I’m a certified appraiser in the state of CT. My office consists of 4 certified FHA approved appraisers. We all feel your pain. The question that needs to be addressed is “What are we going to do about it?”. Stop the whining,stop the “poor me,this is unfair” We need to move on and combat this problem. The lenders have there game plan in place,its amazing that they created this mess and already have a plan in place and it doesn’t include the independent,ethical,honest appraiser,what kind of game plan do we have? The answer is none. Who is our voice in Washington? we have none. The sollution isn’t getting out of the buisiness,it’s not accepting 50% of our normal fees for double the work which gets reviewed by a minimal wage ,inexperienced,incompetent reviewer who relies on sites like Zillow to determine the estimated value of a dwelling and if your appraised value doesn’t meet or is less than that figure ,they put you through a living hell. It certainly not having to accept management company policies. The days of the 2-3 hour appraisals are over. Thats fact and wont change. We can already see the ripple affect of this economic mess that were in. Sales are down nearly 30% from last year,values are down between 10-15%, are comparable base has shrunk. Management companies aren’t the answer. The experienced,hard working ethical appraiser is. That is all of you who care enough to respond on this site. We need to band together and say no.Whats the sollution? I wish I had the answers. We need to start first by refusing work from management companies. I also suggest that each and everyone of you out there that pay between $600-1000 to your E&O agent to contact them and ask what they can do to provide some type of legal assistance to help us stay in this buisiness. Over the many years I’ve been in this buisiness I’ve never had a claim or an issue.It’s time to ask your agent “what can you provide us?” Without all of us donating to insurance premiums it will eventually affect them.Lets hope that its not to late. I’m looking forward to logging in and hopefully reading some ideas or possible sollutions. WE NEED TO BAND TOGETHER.
    Robert P Panicali
    Certified Appraisal Assoc. LLP

  21. Tom

    When are the banking regulators going to sue Cuomo, et al, for overstepping their authority and put a stop to the HVCC?

  22. I agree with Robert above. There are only three possible solutions:
    I. Create an organization to promote NO MORE AMC WORK!
    II. Class Action Lawsuit
    III. Quit the business
    Solution I. would be the easiest and cheapest with a May 1, 2009 deadline.
    Solution II. may work but will be a long long process. The good news is that the National Mortgage Brokers Association is very much interested in this solution as well.
    Putting together an organization for either cause would also build a great foundation for a forming a National Association Of Appraisers. Something we need with mandatory membership and mandatory (yet inexpensive) dues. Without a national organization we will continue to be trampled, raped, & robbed by both AMCs and banking interest.
    You have two weapons to choose from for this fight. Pick one or run.

  23. You assume that the lenders are interested in high quality appraisals…..they never were. AMC’s make their life easier and the quality of the report is secondary, end of story. It’s a shame, but after 15+ years of hard ethical work I will be out of business. Thanks Mr. Cuomo for thinking of us.

  24. Henri

    Here is another thing that Real Professional Appraisers will have to get use to, not only 1/2 or less of our fee, but waiting any where to 45 to 90 days from the time we complete the report to see our fee. As the AMC will control the market, they may even delay that even longer. Yet there is some good news, some states are yet rather late, now thinking about licensing any AMC before they can do business in any state they do this so called service in. Why did not anyone ask appraisers about how to fix this mess than this white wash they think will look good as they clear up their own mess that may take years to do, and this AMC taking over the industry will only take the industry longer to fix the mortgage mess. SPEED Kills, and I see this no different, cheap and fast appraisals will only dig the industry further into a hole, and that means a longer and deeper Depression for the country.
    Put as no one asked us, and no one but appraisers reads this blog, we just go down with the rest of the country. These comments is from an appraiser with 34 years experience and have fired every AMC she has tried to work for, for the unprofessional way they do business, but now they have conned and scammed the industry in to believing the AMC is the cure, but the appraisers know that AMC’s are one of the reasons for this Mortgage Mess, like when WAMU used only LSI to do there contracting of appraisals, that AMC is one of the worst and largest AMC out there. Good luck all. I can’t afford to retire on full fees, so I will have to figure how to keep doing Professional work with now this new mess starts in full in about May.

  25. Scott Reale

    Everyone should take time and send letters to your Governor, Senator even to James Lockhart who is the Director of the Office of Federal Housing Oversight and express your thoughts. Please take your time and get the word out that we can not have inexperienced appraisers putting values on homes. This (housing-mortgage)mess will just get worse. I already send out letters, but if we all do it..maybe we will be heard!

  26. David

    Writing to your governor, senator, representative, and President will do no good. Been there done that. They don’t care. FNMA & Freddie Mac received tens of thousands of letter from appraisers.
    They knew exactely what our complaints were. They were fully aware appraisers would end up giving up 50% -60% of our fees. They were also aware that appraiser had no organized group to put up a fight.
    OFHEOs decision to go ahead with HVCC was contolled 100% by very large banks (think Bank Of America & J P Morgan) and very large AMCs. Companies that stood to either save or make billions.

  27. Christie Bond

    I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I actually began working nearly exclusively for AMC’s back in 2006 – a dramatic move made at a time of my own frustrations over the contant berating and abuses of mortgage brokers pushing their shady deals. As a skilled, honest and ethical appraiser – I was fighting a constant uphill battle against the coruption of the mortgage system at the time. I threw in the towel and began working for select AMC’s rather than compromising my integrity and have never looked back or regretted it. The key word here is “select AMC’s”. Granted, fees are discounted, some more than others – but I have managed to find several who are a very good value as their fees are still reasonable, they pay within 2-4 weeks like clockwork, I never have to spend time in collections,you don’t have to attend to several nagging underwriter stips once appraisal passes the initial quality review (easy to do after you learn their expectations), no one pressures for value, the AMC handles all homeowner and LO calls and statusing and most communications can all be done online. This has actually lead to less work for me overall, and so a lower fee (within reason) has worked out. It’s not perfect (nothing is), of course there are downsides and even though it is a rare occasion that I actually meet a turn time request – the orders continue to come in pretty regularly. The key again, has been my own selectiveness in who I choose to work for. I seek out those who quarantee quick payment and refuse any that will not pay at least my own set minimum fee. I do take issue with the idea that only inferior appraisers work for AMC’s.. I am not a “skippy”, I have 20 years experience in real estate and 10 of those as full time appraiser. I take great pride in the quality of my work and take time to perform due diligence in each and every assignment. I am the sole support of a family of 3 – it’s a modest middle-income living, but seeing the current job woes of my neighbors, friends and family – I am happy to have it.

  28. HLR

    This is to the last comment person, Christie, you are one of the rare ones that like AMC, their taking 1/2 your fee and you waiting for payment. Mortgage brokers that have been around anytime, knows the rules an can be worked with. Fees that were established in about 1991 when we all got licensed, now more and more folks want their cut. Good luck going with the folks most of us feel are the problem, not the cure. If we have to go with them, then treat us as professionals and give us real fees and time to do our work correctly, not asking how fast, and how cheap are you and keeping half or more our fee. That makes for POOR work and canned comments, garbage in, and garbage out. This HVCC is all just a white wash so it looks like they are doing something as the lenders are in such a mess, they can’t keep track of mortgage payments, or what property is in foreclosure or not. Then they go out in buy other Banks with bigger problems, it’s a mess. Blaming mortgage brokers and appraisers is not the problem, too big is fail is the problem, and it’s going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

  29. G Schulitz

    What ever happened to the old fashion way of banks doing business ? Direct with the borrower & with the appraiser ? Making mortgage loans based on:
    1. no more than 28% of borrowers take home pay
    2. no more than 75-80% of loan to value ratio.
    3. reputable local appraisal product

  30. Chase

    I really can’t believe the commentary on here. The only one I agree with is Christie.
    1. AMCs do not choose speed and fee over quality. If they did they would get no business from the lenders. Who wants a product that isn’t quality? And since the lender cant even tell us appraisers what value they want anymore, why would they want just any old appraisal! Quality is MORE important than ever with the HVCC.
    2. The HVCC specifically notes that those placing the appraisal orders (from the AMCs) must have sufficient appraisal experience, so you wont be dealing with the next Jack off the street.
    3. Yes Men appraisers are the main cause of the housing crisis. Most of them worked for Brokers who they had these “Great Working Relationships that they have cured over the years”. Do you think they would have that relationship if they didnt hit the value every time? One lost deal would mean no more orders.
    4. FACTS about AMCs: AMCs use the very same appraisers as everyone else does… even designated appraisers. Let me present and explain four (4) observations about AMC appraisers that contradict popular stereotypes.
    Most residential appraisers work with AMCs, or have in the last 5 years; disputing the notion that only a small cabal of lousy appraisers does AMC work.
    The majority of appraisers who do not work with AMCs would do so if they were to earn higher fees; confirming that it’s all about the money.
    Each appraiser who works with an AMC agrees up front to the expectations regarding quality, service, and fees; evidence that appraisers who work with AMCs do so of their own free will.
    The assertion that you get what you pay for when it comes to AMC appraisals is unfounded; AMCs give back something of value to appraisers in return for the appraiser’s best pricing.

  31. Appraiser 9

    Does the HVCC definitly begin on May 1st? or is there a chance there will be more reforms and postponements?

  32. Justin Morton

    Currently, it is still scheduled to take effect May 1, 2009.

  33. David

    HVCC will only change when the banks, FNMA, & Freddie Mac, & OFHEO pull their collective heads out of their **ses and suddenly realize that their aren’t enough appraisers left to do the $150 work.
    Their Solution: Just like the FHA Appraiser shortage fix. They’ll waive the licensing requirement.
    Thank God the U.S. Government doesn’t do plumbing work too.

  34. David

    We are not saying that only inferior appraisers accept AMC work. We are saying that people who accept AMC work for 40-60% less than standard fees either cut corners (and are therefore cheats) or they don’t cut corners and take the loss (which makes them idiots).
    Are you a cheater, an idiot, or possibly both?